TITHONUS' DIARY!!
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responses, various There was some good feedback on the last entry, so I'm collecting it here. Um. - From star there's this guestbook entry: "It's only patriarchy if it's men who think that a women's only purpose is to find a man. Bridget Jones and Pride & Prejudice were written by women. Also, "What does she tell us is the moment that she realised she was in love with him?" was that supposed to be rhetorical? Because it's when she sees how big his mansion is. Women can hardly expect to get equality before they get over crap like this. Also, NEVER DISS MR. DARCY!!! :@:@:@" - Also from star is this fragment of a MSN conversation: - Itylus says: Sorry if I offended you with my rant on feminism meh. says: you didn't Itylus says: not even the bit where I dissed Mr Darcy? meh. says: :@ meh. says: EXCEPT FOR THAT BIT meh. says: NEVER DISS HIM AGAIN Itylus says: actually, I wasn't really meaning to diss Mr Darcy per se meh. says: oh i see Itylus says: I was more saying... this supposedly beautiful, romantic relationship that is meant to be the epitome of "true love" and so on Itylus says: is actually about money and power meh. says: that's true meh. says: but it's the fault of the female not the male meh. says: women are the ones who think their only purpose is to find a man Itylus says: Well... it's not Mr Darcy's fault that he's rich... Itylus says: ...yes, but why do they think that? It's because they have taken on the hegemonic cultural underpinnings of patriarchy Itylus says: and adopted them as their own meh. says: no it's not Itylus says: and believe in them as though they were "natural" meh. says: its because they feel unfufilled as HUMANS and latch onto the idea that only someone else can make them happy Itylus says: I guess a lot of men do that too meh. says: hence the HUMANS Itylus says: But... when men do it, they aren't supported by a socially normative framework in which they're regarded as "normal" for obsessively desiring someone else to solve their problems Itylus says: Men are given the expectation that "winning" in some other area of life will be what fixes their feeling of being unfulfilled meh. says: i think these days it is seen as normal for most men to want a life partner Itylus says: whereas, for women... I mean, girls get the nagging from their parents, "when are you going to get a boyfriend?" meh. says: boys get that too! Itylus says: but boys don't get nagged to get girlfriends Itylus says: well, I don't Itylus says: but then, my mother is scared of me meh. says: lots of boys do Itylus says: hmmm meh. says: s'true meh. says: although, the person who is nagging them is their mother... Itylus says: I guess I don't know enough to disagree Itylus says: THAT'S RIGHT! Itylus says: It's the mother who's responsible for maintaining the... um, something meh. says: yes meh. says: exactly meh. says: its women who are responsible for women's inequality Itylus says: But, would it be better to live in a cave, knowing that you were completely equal to all the other people living in caves? meh. says: ?? Itylus says: What I mean by that is... if you live in a society where inequality is the nrom Itylus says: *norm meh. says: why are we going back to caves Itylus says: and you have to accept a certain amount of that inequality in order to get along in society Itylus says: then is it really so abominable to accept a certain amount of inequality? Itylus says: Say, if you're a woman and you're in the position of either accepting a "mothering role" which supports patriarchal cultural constructs Itylus says: or Itylus says: not getting the chance to be a mother at all meh. says: well, i dont know meh. says: each individual has to decide for themselves whether its worth it Itylus says: does it mean that you are then responsible for "women's inequality" if you choose to be a mother? Itylus says: Is it ok for me to save this conversation and put it on my diary? Itylus says: I want to collect all the responses to the entry and kind of make an ongoing discussion out of them meh. says: but being a mother or taking on a mothering role is not necessarily supporting patriarchial cultural constructs meh. says: sure, just delete all my typos Itylus says: hehe, ok meh. says: and make me sound intelligent Itylus says: impossible, I'm afraid meh. says: AND DONT INCLUDE THAT meh. says: :@ Itylus says: :D Itylus says: fine, fine, i'll take those bits out... Itylus says: ...maybe Itylus says: anyway meh. says: :@ Itylus says: taking on a mothering role may not necessarily involve supporting patriarchal cultural constructs Itylus says: but the thing is... I mean, if you're in a situation where you can't afford to raise children on your own Itylus says: then it may mean you're in a relationship with a man who Itylus says: will insist on certain "values" being upheld Itylus says: how much can you do to change those values? meh. says: ...there's child support and plenty other financial aid available Itylus says: hrm - And then this note from euphorically: "If patriachy had been accepted in place of the woman's revolution, if people had agreed that talking about it would never changed something so entrenched, do you think women would have even some of the so called 'equalities' they do now? Badges like 'Save the Male' worn by women are for middle-upper class urbanites who are led to believe that because women have some equality, they should relax, and that infact, and then have the nerve to consider themselves liberals, freethinkers or humanitarians. Just because we are not starving in Australia, doesn't mean we should wear badges with 'fuck people in other countries, who are hungry, I'm well fed.' What I am saying is, in a roundabout kind of way, any form of accepting patriarchy, because things for women 'aren't so bad' is merely ignoring the world of difference between women's rights in Australia and 99% of the world. Does that many any sense? And I don't hate men, I just think wearing a badge saying 'Save men' is like wearing a Che Gureva tshirt, all statement and no fact." - To which I wrote this reply: "I actually agree with you 100%. I kind of got lost along the way but I had meant to add the proviso that although revolutions rarely produce the results they imagine they can, they also often result in positive evolution; the French Revolution being the classic example, because although it basically consisted of a series of catastrophic "experiments in democracy", culminating in the terror, then it also provided us with our first real working model of modern democracy, a type of democracy which doesn't depend on slavery in order to function. Similarly with feminism; I think in many ways it has failed to achieve what it intended to achieve (and the aforementioned badge in a way is a perfect symbol of that) but it has achieved an enormous amount of positive progress. Did you know that women only got the vote in Switzerland as recently as 1979? (Or thereabouts - exact date eludes me, but it was late 70s). I guess the point that I really wanted to emphasize is that... the bad institutions that we all want to overthrow survive in part because of the useful functions they perform, and if those useful functions are unacknowledged then we actually make it more difficult to overthrow them." - Also, euphorically says a little more on her opinions on feminism here. - Anyway, I'm really interested to hear anything further from anyone on this subject, so if you're feeling provoked by any of that, or by the last entry, then don't be shy, go ahead and write! :) - "Santa doesn't like bad boys" - Adam Sandler |
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